What does CLASSIC MASCULINITY Mean in the 21st Century? Ft. GentZ

What does it mean to be a classic gentleman in the 21st century? James Lawley of GentZ joins Raphael and Jack to discuss masculinity, self-respect, and the relevance of classic style in a fast-changing world.

Video Transcript [Lightly Edited for Clarity]:

Raphael: Welcome back to the Gentleman’s Gazette. Today, we are in London.

Jack: At the Brasserie Zedel, the Bar Américain.

Raphael: And we have a guest, James. Thanks for being here.

James: Pleasure to be here, Raphael. Thank you.

Raphael: And we’ll talk about what it means to be a classic gentleman or classically masculine in the modern day. I think Karl Lagerfeld once said, “You’ve lost control of your life when you went and bought a pair of sweatpants.”

Now, looking around us today, sweatpants are all over the place. How do you think that quote fits into our modern times, James?

James: I think it’s more relevant than ever now that sweatpants are so popular. We just went on a long, full-haul flight to get here. Most people on the plane were wearing sweatpants if not pajamas.

I think wearing proper clothes in a situation where most people are not, says, “I’m still going to be in control of myself. I’m still going to conduct myself in an adult way,” rather than giving in to this very childish temptation of, “I just need to be the most comfortable. I just need everything to be soft.”

So, I think it’s actually quite a masculine concept to dress well and take pride in yourself rather than just giving in to the easy way all the time.

Raphael: Well, I think a well-cut pair of pants—especially, I’ve noticed, high-waisted trousers when I travel—they stay up and are still comfortable, especially if they’re cut wider. So I’m not feeling like I’m missing out.

So, Jack, what do you think are the key elements of masculinity today?

Jack: That’s a very good question. The key elements of masculinity today, from my point of view, would be in the fundamentals of how one is, in terms of respect. I feel like that’s probably the starting point for a lot of people. It should be that element of respect—for yourself, respect for others—and from there, I think it grows. I mean, James, you’ve recently released a video all about gaining respect.

James: Exactly.

Jack: Are you of the opinion that it’s given first before it’s received?

James: Not necessarily so. I think the most important thing when it comes to respect is self-respect. Everything we do is an indication of our levels of self-respect. Dressing is a great example. Even the way we eat or the way we work tells people the levels of self-respect that we have. And you can’t expect anybody to respect you more than you respect yourself. So, although clothing, body language, and the way we speak can command respect, if you don’t actually respect yourself deep down, it’s smoke and mirrors.

Jack: Interesting. So, yeah, I would say that element and concept of respect is a big part of how masculinity is defined in the 21st century—when we don’t have to wear the classic-style clothes that we all want to wear, but we choose to wear them. That’s the driving force that I think is very key, at least for me.

Raphael: I also think that respect—or masculinity—is broadly defined by culture, right? If you look at the U.S., for instance, if you live in a rural area, chances are a truck is closely tied to masculinity, right? Maybe having a beard is masculine, wearing a pair of jeans and boots.

Meanwhile, wearing a pink seersucker jacket might be considered very unmanly. Versus, if you go to Nantucket and you wear a pink pair of pants, right? This is widely accepted and super popular. So, I think where we are hugely informed how, at least, the majority perceives masculinity.

James: I agree. And I don’t like to be too prescriptive about what I think is the correct way to dress. I think it’s more important that you actually put thought into it and have intention about it. I don’t wear Western wear because I think that would be incongruent with my personality and my background.

But I think if a man wears a pair of well-made cowboy boots and jeans, tucks his shirt in, and has his belt buckle and is well-groomed, to me, he’s just as well-dressed as you or I. What I don’t like is when people don’t care in any regard.

Raphael: And I mean, I think it goes back to self-respect, right? I think confidence is a key aspect. If you wear things confidently, it doesn’t matter if it’s something that might be perceived as feminine in one part of the world or masculine in another. It’s about how you wear it and how you go about it.

For example, Jack, the other day, you were wearing a pair of espadrilles, and you said, “I bought these from the women’s department.” And I thought it was quite remarkable because you need a very good level of self-confidence to go to the women’s department, buy their shoes, and then also share with others that you did so.

Jack: For sure. That all comes back to the fact that my partner and I share a shoe size for one or two specific styles—like a slip-on loafer, a pair of well-made slippers, or espadrilles.

James: I was going to say this doesn’t work if you’re size 11, but—

Jack: No, I have relatively small feet for what would be considered masculine. And I think that’s another element. For instance, my pinky ring wouldn’t fit your hand—it would be considered a feminine size. However, for me, it fits perfectly. And back to the espadrilles—it’s this element of my partner wearing a pair. They just looked like a standard pair of espadrilles because that’s what they are.

James: It’s a unisex design.

Jack: Exactly. Historically, they’re a unisex design. They looked good on her. She took them off and left them on the floor. I wondered what they’d look like on me, tried them on, and the next day, we went and bought more pairs for me. And yeah, I am proud of that. It’s a fun story, but I also don’t need to spend hundreds of dollars on designer espadrilles.

I mean, James, I’m sure you’ve seen some of the designer espadrilles in the States—so expensive. Seven pounds from Primark. They’re from the women’s section, and I’m quite happy with them. Annoyingly, they get more compliments than some of my really expensive stuff sometimes.

Raphael: It’s funny—you also mentioned a really good aspect. Once you understand who you are and what works for you, that can be really great. I talk to many men of modest height, and they often complain that the watches are too big for their wrists. It just looks wrong. So, they resort to more traditional women’s size watches or vintage watches to get that smaller form factor.

Jack: Yep, same here. Exactly. I prefer a smaller watch and am quite happy to look at women’s watches when shopping vintage. Granted, some of them can be a bit feminine in design, but a timeless piece—like a tank-style watch—I think that can be worn by anyone. Again, I kind of like the ability to share a few elements of wardrobe.

James: I have a question for you two. We’re all slightly different ages here.

For my generation, in particular, physicality—working out and being physically capable—has become quite an important part of what it means to be a man today. I know that even though I’ve dressed this way for a long time, I don’t think it started looking good on me until I started taking better care of my body. So, what’s your opinion on that?

Raphael: I think, you know, in the U.S., typically and historically, working out in a gym has been much more prevalent than, let’s say, in Europe.

James: Yes.

Raphael: And it has been much more a part of the culture of masculinity. Now, I think it’s really good to take care of your body, right? Because at the end of the day, you have one, and studies show physical exercise helps you stay healthy and feel better. So, I think that’s a good thing.

Now, if there’s just one way of defining masculinity where it’s like, “You need to have a six-pack and look good in a muscle shirt,” then I think that becomes, in a way, not quite fair—because maybe not everyone wants that. Winston Churchill, for instance, was famously against sports. He said, “No sports for me.” He drank, he ate, and yet people wouldn’t think of Winston Churchill as a sissy or a feminine character at all, right?

So I think it has its place, but I personally don’t think it’s good to say, “If you want to be a man, you have to work out five times a week in the gym.”

Jack: I think, for me, I’ve historically been very uncomfortable in sporting environments. The gym is not a happy place for me. I’ve never liked it. I’ve got more creative bones in my body than I have physical bones in my body if that makes sense.

And ultimately, I think, yes, I have been blessed with a relatively fast metabolism. But I also believe in a lot of moderation. I don’t drink to excess. I don’t eat to excess. Again, I think it actually goes back to respect. You sort of … you know what your boundaries are, you know what your limits are. And I think we did a video a while back about how to drink like a gentleman, and it’s the ability to say, “I’m good,” and know when your boundary is.

So, although as I age, I am starting to appreciate that my clothes from five years ago aren’t as slim anymore on me—or rather, on the other side, that they’re too slim on me now—but I think physical care can be more than just going to the gym.

Raphael: And I think the aspect of care, right, is really a big one. I think when you, you know, like Lagerfeld said, “You’ve given up when you wear sweatpants.” You could argue the same way. It’s like if you let your body go, right? If you don’t get your hair cut, if you don’t shave—and, you know, you can have a perfectly groomed beard, so I’m not saying you’re only taking care of yourself when you shave, not at all.

It’s like, when you groom yourself, when you look after yourself, when you look after your mental health—all these things are signs of care. And I think I once heard someone say, “You know, I don’t care that you are a larger man, but when you let yourself go and don’t care, that becomes very unattractive.”

So, I think care can look different to different people, right? For some people, that means, “I never eat any fat. I only eat chicken breasts, and I call ahead at the restaurant and tell them not to use oil when I come in.” Versus, for others, that may mean, you know, they’ll go for long walks.

But ultimately, if you benchmark yourself against others in society—whether it’s their truck or their six-pack or whatever it is—I think it’s a good path to unhappiness. Versus, if you just look introspectively and say, “Who am I today?” and benchmark yourself to that, and just get better every day by a little bit, I think you’ll be more fulfilled.

James: I agree, but I do think that we need role models. And, you know, health is very important to me. But one of the reasons that I use Sean Connery as an example—or like a leading light of this classically masculine idea—is his physical presentation—his body, for example. It’s not wildly unachievable.

It’s not the six-pack that we see today. So, I think for the average guy, especially a young guy, I see all these wild “adult transformations” online that are completely unrealistic—they’re steroid users. Whereas what he has, you think, “Okay, you work out three, four times a week, you eat relatively healthily, and you can look like that.”

So, I think it’s important for the younger generation to have some kind of role model. Something to aspire to. Because we’re also consuming images constantly, people are on their phones so much that’s their environment. Their environment isn’t the world out here. So, they’re going to see something, they’re going to have some kind of role model, and to discover role models that I think would be healthy ideals to aspire to—I think that’s useful.

Raphael: No, it can certainly help. I think, when you’re—like Jack, for example—like your genetics have an impact too. I remember when I was working out in college with friends, and we’d do the exact same exercise; we’d work out at the same time. And, you know, I would show more progress and also look different.

Someone else showed even more progress. And then the other guy, he was just more stringy, and it didn’t show up at all. That also means, okay, you have to accept your body. Maybe then, you look for a role model that is more like you or that you identify with.

James: There are so many to choose from as well.

Jack: I think that comparison against others is something—potentially one of the biggest lessons that I’m probably still learning if I’m being honest, about what masculinity is—is we’re all comparing ourselves to each other. I think it goes way back to when we were cavemen. It’s all about risk, and we want to know that the rest of the pack is doing the same as us so that we feel validated and we’re not scared. In that, you can kind of lose yourself because you’re trying to keep up with yourself or someone else.

So, I think, with masculinity, there’s that element of being comfortable in your own self, more often than not.

Raphael: Absolutely. And that’s the attractive part, right? If you’re confident and comfortable and can do that. I have a friend who’s like, you know, like, “Driving a minivan is more masculine than a truck.”

Now, at first, that sounds really odd, right? But you’re like, okay, if you can, you know, take this—if you can say, “Hey, what does my family need? What makes more sense?” And I’m so confident in myself that I don’t doubt my masculinity when I drive a minivan. Or, you know, when you think of the classic gentlemanly drink, right? But that’s the picture that has been portrayed as what it means to be masculine.

James: Yeah, I’ll be completely honest, though. When I’m in a bar with a man, and he orders a girly drink, I do think it’s a little bit embarrassing, like a porn star martini or like some kind of very fruity cocktail. I think, really? Come on, have an old-fashioned, have a whiskey.

Jack: What is it about those drinks that make them masculine for you?

James: It is just a stereotype. It is a tradition, for sure. But, you know, I don’t take it too seriously. But I’ll be honest with you—I do judge people a little bit based on what they drink. Yeah.

Raphael: See, I—my wife had an uncle, you know, and he lives in rural America. And he is, you know, a man’s man. He probably has, you know, 38 combustion engines. He’s a carpenter, you know; he works in construction, and everything around him says manly. But when he got a drink, he would get a piña colada, you know—which is probably one of those girly drinks you mentioned, right?

And I thought of that as being actually very cool, right? I thought, like, this guy’s so comfortable in who he is that he can kind of pull that off. And he’s not threatened in his masculinity by things that he just genuinely likes.

And I think that’s it—when you genuinely like it, and you own it, that’s one thing, right? When you’re kind of insecure, and you’re drinking the whiskey that you really don’t like—and you can see it—that’s weird, too. At the end of the day, we’re all so different. You know, some people like something sweet, you like something more tart, you like something bitter. Why would we judge masculinity on that?

I mean, of course, it’s history, it’s culture, but—

James: I mean, I say this wearing—I’m wearing a pink jacket right now. So, obviously, I don’t feel like I have to fit in with everything. But I think what you say is interesting. When somebody is so hyper-masculine—or if a woman was hyper-feminine—but then they do one little thing that kind of flips that expectation.

It is kind of cool. It is kind of funny. But yeah, sometimes you have to be at a certain level to pull that off and make it kind of funny as part of your identity, rather than just another thing of you, like, “Oh, and he orders a piña colada as well.”

Raphael: And, you know, you made a good point about judgment, right? I think, as human beings, we all judge. We judge all the time because it’s something that we learned, right? There’s an experience. And, in order to protect ourselves, in order to get ahead, we make these judgment calls. And it’s only upon reflection that you’re then like, “Oh, yes, maybe that’s unfair.”

Maybe you could walk us through a bit of your style journeys. Why don’t you start Jack? You know, in the beginning, when you got into clothing, how you felt, and how things changed over time.

Jack: For me, I think my—I’ve always been exposed to quite eccentric styles. A big part of my appreciation of style has come from comic books and old movies, like the Bond series, for instance. And yeah, because a lot of these comic book characters were created in their late 30s or early 40s, therefore a suit was very much the everyday. Which is why, you know, the Joker wears a purple suit, for sure, but it’s still a suit.

So that’s always been there in my subconscious. But as I grew up, I think I definitely experimented with those really zany, out-there styles first. And I realized that I was perhaps taking too much from what I liked in those role models, and there wasn’t enough of me in that. So, as I’ve grown, I’ve definitely done less character and more character, if that makes sense. I’ve learned more about myself, the things that I like, the things that I don’t like, and I would describe my style at the moment as being flexible.

I enjoy the ability to put on a pair of jeans and a nice Shetland sweater for the weekend. If I’m with either of my two nieces—they’re young—things get messy. I don’t want to turn up in a bespoke suit and expect that it’s going to be pristine at the end of the day. So you make adjustments for that. Style should be comfortable, in my opinion. You shouldn’t be shoehorning your style into every aspect of your life in a really artificial way.

“Style should be comfortable, in my opinion. You shouldn’t be shoehorning your style into every aspect of your life in a really artificial way.”

Jack Collins

Raphael: Yeah. If you go through your style journey and you reflect, like, how has, like, you know, judgment maybe evolved and changed over time?

James: Well, I’ve always been into very extreme forms of physical presentation. I’ve always liked eccentric people like you. I mean, like you (Raphael) did as well—not like you’re an eccentric. You are a little bit, but we all are.

Jack: I’ll take what I can get.

James: We all are. So, when I was younger, I was pretty gothic in my style—dark clothing, makeup even, and big boots all the time. I just enjoyed creating a look.

As my tastes changed, obviously, I went away from that. My style journey more into this happens. I always enjoyed wearing blazers. I just like the feeling of that. I enjoyed the kind of put-together and confidence that I got from wearing these kinds of clothes. It’s the antithesis of the sweatpants. You know, when I do wear sweatpants, I do feel weak. I do feel like I’ve lost control of myself. I feel weakened. Sneakers, sweaters—I don’t like it. I just don’t feel good in it.

Raphael: So it’s almost like putting on a white suit or something, right? Sometimes, it changes the way you think of yourself.

James: Yeah.

Raphael: And then it also changes the way you stand.

James: Yeah.

Raphael: The way, maybe, you walk, you talk, and it just impacts it all.

James: Yeah. But I do think it’s very important to wear clothes that you’re still very comfortable in. And this is one thing that I noticed with a man who is well dressed or not—is the guys that wear these kinds of clothes all the time, like me and you. We sit very comfortably. I will go and move chairs or do anything that I need to do wearing these kinds of clothes. Whereas, the guy who wears a suit once a year, he’s kind of sat in his suit like he doesn’t feel natural in it. He doesn’t feel like he can move around freely. So that’s something that I noticed.

Raphael: Yeah. I think for me, you know, it was the beginning, right? You maybe dive into the classic style, and you read, you know, Bernhard Roetzel’s Gentleman, Alan Flusser’s Dressing the Man, you know, Style and the Man, and so forth, Clothes and the Man. And, you know, you maybe watch videos, you know, just Gent Z of like, you know, Antonio’s Real Men Real Style, or whatever it is. And you learn, right?

And you’re like, “Ooh, that’s interesting. There’s history, the rules, you learn all that stuff.” And then you sometimes become, you know, judgy. I certainly remember for me, right? You all of a sudden start thinking like, “Ooh, this is wrong,” or, “This is incorrect.” “Oh, you’re wearing turnups or cuffs with this? That’s not right.” You know, “You’re wearing a pair of espadrilles with a double-breasted jacket.”

James: Yeah.

Raphael: Wrong!

James: Button-down collar with a tie.

Raphael: Exactly.

James: So many comments about that.

Raphael: Exactly. So, you know, you develop this, and then, if you realistically have to step back, you’re like, “Oh, wow, I’m in judgment here.” And why is that? I think, deep down, there’s maybe an insecurity, and you like to have the rules to guide you and define everything for you. Whereas I think, like, true style in my mind is more of someone who understands all the rules and understands why they’re there and has the history, but just starts creating things and breaking them in ways that work with their personality.

Jack: Would you be—or rather, would I be accurate in saying that, as I’ve seen your style evolve, you’ve relaxed a little more? You now enjoy softer construction, softer clothes, and fabrics.

Raphael: Yes. I think, you know, style evolution is always manifold. For example, in my case, you know, over the years, I’ve certainly gained weight. So, some of the things I had in the beginning no longer fit. And I would say, no, ironically, I probably eat less now, and I work out more often than I did in the past, but it’s because your metabolism changes.

And so you’re like, okay, I need to do things, you know, I need to stay in shape because I want to have certain items. But, yes, there are things. On a color level, I remember, you know, when I was younger when I was in my twenties, I would sometimes have these outfit challenges just for myself where I’m like, can I combine five patterns in this outfit and make it look good, right? And then I also bought items, maybe more, on eBay.

Because I couldn’t afford any other items, and typically, these are items that are bolder and more eccentric because these are the items people don’t wear as often and they don’t know how to combine. So then you end up with all of these, right? And you still try to make it work.

But yes, I think my style probably has gotten more casual, too. I like a soft jacket, right? Ideally, I would wear a jacket that feels like a sweater but looks the part where I like it. I like this look; I like how it feels. That would be my ideal.

James: I got a question for you. When the Gentleman’s Gazette became more successful, did that change your personal style? Because, for me, since doing Gent Z full-time, I feel a little bit more validated in dressing up all the time because I feel like it suits my purpose.

It suits my mission in life. And if anybody were to ask me, why are you so dressed up? Not that it’s any of their business, but I feel like there’s a genuine reason I’m representing myself and what I do here. So, did the same thing happen to you?

Raphael: You know, for me, it was the other way around because I only started it because it was a hobby. So I always liked to dress up, and I was already kind of, you know, someone who maybe put more thought into their outfits than other people did. There’s certainly an element of, you know, when you’re more well-known, people will recognize you. And so you ask yourself, well, you know, maybe how do I want to be perceived?

And I just said, you know, I am who I am. And I’m a family father. And I, you know, look a bit dorky sometimes on my, you know, cargo bike with my orange helmet, you know, and my seersucker shorts, my polo shirt, and my boat shoes with my seven-year-old daughter in the back. But I’m like, I’m okay with that.

You know? And I found that people run into you and recognize you, you know, at a Chinese takeout, you know, at the UPS store, in places where you may not expect it. And so I think that part didn’t change it so much. But of course, I like buying clothes and having them as part of the business and the business expenses. And I like to dress up and do fun things.

Jack: So when we consider the term classic masculinity, I’m of the impression that sometimes that term classic can be attached to a certain period in time, a certain age bracket in sort of the 30s to perhaps the 60s maybe. What elements do you think are worth keeping from those eras, and what elements do you think are actually good that we’ve gotten rid of in the 21st century?

I do think that it’s definitely attributed to a particular era. And I think it’s attributed to that era because coming up to the late 60s or in the 70s, that’s when the consensus of what a man is ended, and we opened up these many different interpretations of what masculinity is. I don’t think people were debating so much in the 1940s about what is a man because it was quite obvious.

Raphael: That’s true.

James: Everyone was doing it.

Raphael: And today, it’s very different, right? You have, you have transgender, you have fluid things, you have, you know, different pronouns. So, it definitely has changed.

James: I think the things that are good that we should keep would be the self-respect that comes through in the way you dress, the way you hold yourself, the lifestyle that you lead.

Some of the bad things would be smoking two packets of unfiltered cigarettes a day. I’ve very deliberately avoided smoking content on my channel because I don’t want to encourage that in young guys. Definitely, people’s attitudes about women and other topics were probably quite out—what we would consider to be outdated now. I think that people have the opportunity to imbibe many different cultures and more information and be their own version of a man.

I think that’s a good thing. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Although I’m attracted to a more classical ideal, it doesn’t mean there aren’t elements of a more modern type of masculinity. You know, I love skincare products. I talk about skincare products. I do skincare every day. In the fifties, men were still washing their faces with a bar of soap, which I think we all know is not the right thing to do these days. So, it changes, and it evolves. But the overall frame, for want of a better word, of this era of masculinity is something that I still like, and I think it is a good path for most men, actually.

Raphael: That was well said. I think, you know, sometimes one of the comments I think that we see a lot is people hating on white sneakers. Now, if you go back historically, you know, white sneakers have been around since the thirties. And if you just went about time, you’d consider it to be a classic. Yet a lot of people who would, you know, subscribe to the classic style are, sometimes, upset. I think it’s because they’re really upset about the sneaker and how it basically was the start of the casualization of everything else, right?

Sneaker with a suit, sneaker with everything. So they hate on that even though it’s a classic item. You mentioned, you know, like how people or how men view women. I also think it’s how you treat women and how you think of them in society, right? I’ve talked to people who are like, “Ooh, I don’t think my daughter should be a doctor or a lawyer.”

And I think that mindset really doesn’t matter. If you have certain genitals or whatever—you know, it doesn’t matter if you have a penis or not, right? You can achieve whatever it is that you want, and that shouldn’t limit you. And I like that, you know, people are, you know, they say, “Hey, I identify as a man, and I love classic style, and that’s how I dress that way.”

And that’s accepted today. I think that is really good. And I think great things will come from that because looking back historically, you know if you were gay or lesbian, you always had to hide it and suppress it. But that is not something that will lead to a better society in my mind.

Jack: Because you could consider that people who enjoy and indulge in potentially more formal, classic style are becoming a minority group. It’s one of those things that—

Raphael: Absolutely.

Jack: Yeah, and from that point of view, for me, I’m less interested in the details, ironically, of a person’s physical bits and pieces. I’m more interested in who they are internally and their values. Let’s have a conversation.

Raphael: At the same time, I think, you know, there was an old quote, like, if John Bull turns around and looks at you in the street, you’re not well-dressed. And today, it’s the opposite, right? If I just fit in and I wear the same, like, you know, Crocs and sweatpants and everyone else wears, then no one turns around. Versus if we dress this way, you know, we get a lot more attention.

But I’m like, yes, we are just a minority of enthusiasts who decide to wear that. And can you be classically masculine without this type of dress? Absolutely. But often, there’s still this old connotation that, “Ooh, he dresses in a three-piece suit. He is a gentleman.” You know, Al Capone dressed in a three-piece suit—that doesn’t make him a gentleman, you know?

Jack: Yeah. So, with that in mind, do you consider that there are any negative connotations of being classically masculine?

James: It depends on how you view them as negative. Definitely, in the US, the way that I present myself and the way that my viewers present themselves, we are interpreted as more conservative. If you’re conservative, that’s no negative.

If you aren’t, then you might not like that. You might wish to dispel that. But I think that’s just an obvious judgment call that you would make. If you see somebody with pink hair, you probably think they’re a bit more liberal, a bit more left-wing. That is not necessarily true. So I don’t honestly find that there are many downsides, except that my dry cleaning costs me more than it probably would if I wore athleisure all the time.

Raphael: It’s a good point about that, you know, the connotation between, “Oh, you’re wearing a jacket? You must be conservative,” right? I think I talked to Bernhard Roetzel once, and he was like, “You know, I love living today. This is a much better time politically in any respect. But I’m sometimes invited by these, you know, more right-wing groups who think I’m more politically in that mindset because I dress this way.” But I think it’s completely detached these days.

James: Is that the same in the UK? Because conservative in the UK is such a different ideal as well.

Jack: It is. I think there is a stigma sometimes in the UK that if you wear a suit and tie in a very particular way, then you’re a boring politician. Perhaps you support—

Raphael: In what way?

Jack: In what way? Wearing the suit? Yeah. I would consider it’s kind of almost with a sense of “have to” —obligation rather than want to because it’s like, again, it’s about that shoehorning the style into every aspect of your life. It’s like, well, this is what a man wears, therefore I will wear it without any real appreciation for the clothing.

And I think that’s the difference between people like ourselves who enjoy things sartorially from the point of view of it’s the detail, the craft, the enjoyment of wearing something that we feel good in, not the clothes wearing us.

Raphael: Yeah, it’s like uniform versus blatant playfulness, right? Where are you at with that?

James: Well, I think the uniform of today, go outside any pub after five o’clock in London, you just see a swarm of blue dress shirts with chinos, black dress shoes, and a backpack. To me, that’s not even in the same conversation of style that we’re having. So I do associate that more with just an “I’m dressing this way because I have to, not because I love it.” And I don’t.

That’s such a uniform of just corporate life that I don’t place any kind of judgment. I don’t look at a man like that and think about what his life would be like and what he believes in, except that he, you know, works nine to five and drinks at All Bar One afterward. But yeah, there is a very interesting difference in the way that clothing and a more classical idea of masculinity are perceived.

I also think a lot of our reference points when it comes to movies, singers, pop culture, or the things that we like are quite American, and people in the U.S. are much more in touch with that. I mean, an average woman my age in the UK does not know who Cary Grant is, but in the U.S., everybody does.

Raphael: That’s true. And you know, Cary Grant—and he had a—I mean, it’s easier to have a style that is more uniformed in a sense if you always wear a gray suit, right, and you always wear a white or an off-white shirt, and you just change the color of your socks, your pockets, your ties, you’ve made things a lot easier for yourself. And sometimes the driving force behind that, you know, is manifold.

Like Obama said once, “I don’t want to think about what I wear. I don’t want to waste any mental energy. So I always wear the same things that make me look presentable.” Good, right? Then you can be on the opposite spectrum where you’re like, “I look at clothing as being a form of self-expression, and I want to do different things, and I want to try stuff.” Or maybe you just don’t want to make mistakes and fit in and get the promotion.

Whatever it is, I think if you’re fear-driven and dress that way, there’s a very different outcome than if you were passion-driven. And when you’re passion-driven, you know not every one of your outfits will be a home run. Sometimes you look back, and you’re like, “Ooh—”

James: That’s when you film everything that you do.

Raphael: It’s almost like a great diary, though, right?

James: Yeah.

Raphael: Because you can look back. And like intentionally in the Gentleman’s Gazette, we’ve not deleted old videos. I know lots of other channels who did that. And, you know, yesterday we had an event together, and I talked to Mustafa, and Mustafa was like, “You know, during the pandemic, I subscribed to YouTube Premium.”

“And I downloaded all your videos, and I watched all of them in the car—for some reason, it was a car at the time—and went through that.” And I was like, “Yes, it is great because you will also see the progression that I made, that every one of our hosts made.” And I think that’s also something I want to portray.

You know, when we do things, it’s not always going to be perfect. And as a gentleman or a classically masculine man, I think it’s important to say, “I take a risk. I will make mistakes, but I will learn from those mistakes, and I will not let the mistakes define me.”

Jack: Yes, I think that one of the biggest things that I’ve learned working with you is that element of, don’t let good—sorry, don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good. And sometimes, it’s about doing rather than about planning.

Like, if you’re always planning for one thing, you might never actually realize it because there’s always something that you could do on top of that. “Oh, I could tweak this. I could tweak that.” You’re a very sort of “Let’s do it,” sort of person.

Raphael: And planning is great, right? We planned this entire trip intricately. It makes us efficient, and it’s all good. But sometimes I think planning can also be, you know, just—if you want to control everything in your life, that says, “I’m not confident that I can handle a situation that’s thrown at me, that I can handle that.” Versus, you know, someone who maybe is always spontaneous, that’s a problem too. I mean, how do you operate, James?

James: Very spontaneously. And I’m glad that you mentioned this topic because I have never really, especially in the early days, been that happy with the videos that I’ve made. But I know that if I kept trying to make the perfect video, I never would have started the channel.

And I put a demand on myself to make at least three videos a week. And if my hair happens to look bad in the videos, or I’m just not in top form, I would still make the video. And some of those videos that I—my ego would have wanted not to upload—became the biggest videos that took my channel to where it is today.

But it’s an incredible diary. When I look back, it’s not even been a year. I look different. I’m 40 pounds lighter, been through about three different hairstyles. I speak differently. I’ve got better at communicating to the camera.

Raphael: You quit your job.

James: I quit my job. Everything about me is different in one year. And I don’t think it would have happened quite so quickly if it weren’t for this form of accountability, this video diary that you’re making of yourself. It’s like an extreme journaling, I would say.

Raphael: And I think it’s also like, you know, being masculine, especially as a young man, means to be open and be curious. You know, I think, you know, you started as a goth. Now you are into classic man style. You know, I’ve seen many men who are really into classic man style, hardcore early on. And I think it’s born of the insecurity.

It’s very rule-driven, very judgy, but then maybe later on, you know, maybe they become a father and things change, or they are in a completely different field, and they leave. And that’s okay. Give yourself permission to experiment, try, make mistakes, and see what feels right.

James: I know that I’m going to look back at the videos that I’m filming now in a couple of years and probably cringe. But good, because if I don’t cringe at who I used to be, then I haven’t evolved.

Raphael: You haven’t made any progress, right? It’s the idea that I’m getting a little better every day, and my benchmark is myself. And if men or humans follow that, we will probably have a better world.

We talked about, you know, that self-respect, and you mentioned respect for others. How? Tell us a little bit more about your views on that.

Jack: I’m very much of the opinion, and I think it’s definitely to do with my upbringing as well. I’m very much of the opinion that you pay respect first, and it’s returned in kind. If it’s not, that’s not your fault; that’s the other person, and that’s on them. But for me, I would always—and, actually, it goes back to, I can’t remember the quote exactly, but it’s about treating the doorman the same as you would treat the president of the company.

Raphael: Yes.

Jack: That, I’ve always really enjoyed that idea.

Raphael: Like that humanism behind it.

Jack: Exactly. I mean, we’ve been filming all over London. We’ve had to take many Ubers. We’ve met many great people who have done just that in themselves. And just because they’re fulfilling a service and driving the car for us, it doesn’t mean that we can’t respect that. We can’t respect them. And it’s made the journey go quicker. We’ve had a more enjoyable time.

Raphael: And we learned something about it. I ask people questions—where they’re from, what they like. And, you know, I remember one guy saying, “Oh, you uplifted me.” You know, I was like, “I’ll leave you a tip in the app.” And he was like, “No need, man, you uplifted me.” You know, it was like, that’s cool, right? We have—we can make an impact even if it doesn’t seem like that.

James: Yeah. And it feels better to be that way anyway. It’s the same as, I don’t know, if you’ve ever worked in a bar or a restaurant, a service kind of job. I found it’s much more enjoyable to be really nice to people. It would make the job go quicker and more pleasant. And it’s the same in everyday life.

Raphael: I think almost everyone should, you know, spend some time in a service industry, so you just understand what it’s like to be on the other end.

James: Or just work in a shop or something.

Raphael: Yeah.

Jack: That’s actually where I started. I started in retail, department store, selling toys actually. That was—it was great fun. We always used to say amongst ourselves in the staff room that good customer service starts with those two words: good customer. And it’s something that I’ve followed through into my life on the other side of the cashier point.

Jack: If I’m a good customer, I’m going to get good customer service.

Raphael: And I think respect is also—on the one hand, you have the respect that needs to be earned, right? You don’t look up to me as a boss if I treat you poorly, right? It’s like you—you see over time, “Okay, he follows through in what he says.” You know, I—we agree on something, and it’s done.

And then after a while, you’re like, okay, I respect what they do. I know where it’s going. And there’s the—you’ve never met this person. You’re just getting into the Uber, and you just, you know, respect their car, their possessions. You think about what may be in their interest, and to go about that way, I think that’s also a very masculine thing to do. What are your thoughts, James?

James: Yeah, I think there is a difference between surface-level respect that you should pay everyone and a higher level of respect, which I think men should be intentional and deliberate about being worthy of earning. A lot of people are quite obsessed with being respected, right? People think, “Ah, you should respect me.” And you think, well, why, actually?

“Sure, we should be pleasant and civil to each other, but if you want to be respected as a father, as a boss, or as an employee, that’s something that you have to earn through your actions.”

James Lawley

Sure, we should be pleasant and civil to each other, but if you want to be respected as a father, as a boss, or as an employee, that’s something that you have to earn through your actions. Then it’s a good frame to think about, you know, why would somebody respect me? How can I do this job or play this role in my life to earn that respect?

Raphael: Or let me ask yourself, you know, why is it so important that others respect you? Is it because maybe you don’t have self-respect internally, and you try to fill that void by having others give you that confirmation? Maybe you just have to reframe where you’re at.

Jack: I think, ultimately, there is an element of balance within that because I think it can go too far the other way, and it kind of draws on other parts of the conversation that we’ve had today around being confident and comfortable in yourself. That can go too far the other way like we were talking about letting yourself go. You could be too okay with yourself in the element of, “Yeah, I’m just whatever.” Do you know what I mean?

Raphael: Yes.

James: That’s the original blue pill versus red pill argument. The blue pill is, “Oh, you’re just fine as you are. You don’t need to change anything.” But yeah, there are always things that everybody can change, but it doesn’t mean we should necessarily kill ourselves over it or criticize others for not doing that.

Jack: And vice versa. You shouldn’t give up either and be like, “I’m never going to reach that level of perfection, so what’s the point in trying?” I think, yeah.

Raphael: And so there’s also reframing. I read a study where they said, you know, couples who are in a committed, happy relationship are much more likely to gain weight over time than others who are not. But you could, you know, reframe it and say, “Hey, you know, we’re in a loving, committed relationship. How about we, you know, both at the same time commit to working out together regularly and try to counteract the trend?”

James: It’s also a sign of respect for your partner. “I want to be a good husband or boyfriend for you.”

Raphael: I know sometimes people are like, well, rather than wearing your suit, you know, just hit the gym and work out hard. And I’m always like, well, yes, if you, you know, all of a sudden change your lifestyle and you work out really hard and you have this like really Michelangelo-like body, you look better than if you weigh 300 pounds.

But clothing helps to improve the person who you are today. And, you know, even if you are Michelangelo or James Bond, wearing that suit probably gets you a step up from way before, right? And so it’s like, don’t try to change the world or change yourself from like zero to 100. Take little steps.

James: And I think that people right now don’t seem to understand that you can do many things at once. And I do think this is a bit of an issue in the Manosphere that I see of “You need to focus.” I had this last night: “I’m just focusing on making money right now. I’m just focusing on myself.” You can focus on many different elements of your life. You can go to the gym and shop for new clothes at the same time.

You can focus on your career and try and find a partner at the same time. You have many hours in the day as long as you use them constructively, and you have this higher ideal of your life that you’re reaching for. I don’t think you have to be so compartmentalized.

Raphael: I actually think it’s bad for you, right? I remember, like, when I was in law school, you know, I thought like, “Ooh, I had to sit and study all day for the bar exam,” until I realized, you know, if I actually take time for myself, I go outside for a run, right? I have a nice meal with friends, and it recharges me. I actually study better and get more done than if I just sit there dreadfully at my desk all day.

James: Yeah. As a content creator, if my entire life was just filming and writing videos in my apartment, sure, I might get more work done, but I wouldn’t—the person behind the camera would be slowly crumbling, and I wouldn’t be able to talk about life with any validity because I wouldn’t have one anymore.

One thing that I noticed was that the more I got to know you, the more I got to know Antonio and even Alpha M; they’d all been with the same woman since, you know, before they started. Even in, not your case, but you know, bankruptcy, literally the same woman.

So, that kind of changed my perspective on the whole dating and marriage thing. Okay, you don’t need to have it all figured out before you meet that person. You can go on that journey together.

Raphael: Exactly. And it, you know, makes you stronger too.

James: Yeah.

Raphael: And I think, you know, if we think about classic masculine style and James Bond, one of the challenges young men have today is social media and comparison, right? If you’re, you know, on Instagram or Tinder, you constantly compare yourself, and you’re also confronted with a life that looks glamorous and great. And it’s very easy to think, you know, “Oh, what am I doing wrong that I’m not there,” right? It’s very easy to put yourself down.

So I found that I actually live a happier life if I actively disengage and just use social media in a very intentional way when I want to do research on some shoes or clothes or reach out to specific people. So, I think shifting time spent from screens to real-life interactions makes you a much better masculine gentleman.

“So I found that I actually live a happier life if I actively disengage and just use social media in a very intentional way when I want to do research on some shoes or clothes or reach out to specific people. I think shifting time spent from screens to real-life interactions makes you a much better masculine gentleman.”

Sven Raphael Schneider

James: I agree. Get off the internet now.

Raphael: Yeah. Yeah. So, well, thank you very much for the discussion.

James: Thank you. It’s been a pleasure.

Raphael: And I look forward to doing more videos with all of you again.

Jack: Excellent.

James: Likewise. Likewise.

Raphael: Thank you.

What does classical masculinity mean to you? Share your thoughts and perspectives in the comments below!