Bespoke shoes are among the things we often discuss here at the Gentleman’s Gazette, and we think classic style fans like us share our interest in them. So, we sit down with Minnesota-based shoemaker Amara Hark Weber to talk about her inspiration and craftsmanship that goes into every handmade pair she works on.
Video Transcript [Lightly Edited for Clarity]:
[Raphael] Welcome back to the Gentleman’s Gazette, today at Amara Hark Weber Bespoke Shoemaker in St. Paul. Hi, Amara!
[Amara] Hello, welcome!
Why do you care about bespoke shoes?
[Raphael] Thank you! So, I was always curious, why do you care about bespoke shoes?
[Amara] Personally? Wow, that’s a good question. Why do I care about them, or why do I make them?
[Raphael] Well, why do you care about making bespoke shoes? Is it something… What about it speaks to you? Why did you choose it? How did you get here?
[Amara] That’s a really good question. Okay, I’m going to do my best to answer. And this will be my answer today; it might be different than yesterday; it might be different than tomorrow. But, I think that making shoes is one of the hardest things that I’ve done and I tend to gravitate towards and be drawn to things that are difficult. And I also think that the process of making shoes is really singular, and it’s really long and a lot of it is hidden, very private, and that kind of… The closeness of the relationship that I have with the work, you know, like physically is appealing. And I’m able to make something for individuals that is totally unlike any other object that they would have to hold, much less wear in their body. So, I think that, you know, the process is part of it; the materials are part of it; and the relationship that I have with my clients are part of it.
[Raphael] That’s certainly like a mix of crafts, art, and also the client interaction with the customer. So some might say you know, “Hey, bespoke shoes are really elitist?” Are custom shoes elitist?
Are custom shoes elitist?
[Amara] That’s a good question, too. I guess it depends on who you ask and who’s giving the answer. I don’t think so, but I will say that they’re expensive and there’s not many people who do this. And so, on the one hand, you know, there’s a lot of ways to talk about payment and the cost, which is you know paying a living wage for a person living in the United States; the cost of materials; hourly, the cost of hourly wage. We don’t really make that much money actually.
[Raphael] No, that’s the point, right? Once you, if you’re curious about how a pair of shoes is made, you know, check out this series that we’re doing or we did in the past, and you see how many hours… Like on average, how many hours do you put in?
Measuring Feet for Bespoke Shoes
How long does it take to make bespoke shoes?
[Amara] You know, I say between 40 and 100 hours but I say like working time is one thing but also interfacing with clients is another thing; and then upkeeping the workshop is a pain. When you’re not just doing the shoes but you’re also maintaining a workshop, and it’s also a business.
[Raphael] Yeah. You have to sharpen your knives. Sometimes, you have to think about it, right? And customers come in with special requests and all that stuff.
[Amara] But, it is like the making time itself is, I say, 40 to 100 hours depending on the pair.
[Raphael] Yeah, so even if you charged just for the labor cost, you know, if you charged $40 an hour, we’re talking $600 to $4,000 just in labor. And materials for smaller you know workshops like you, you have to buy through a distributor, through a wholesaler. So, they want to make a living; they mark it up compared to what, you know, an industrial factory may get for the same.
[Amara] I was just talking to someone about this. Our material costs have gone up significantly in the past couple years. Like it’s kind of startling when you sit down and like to do the math of how everything is working out. Yeah, but whether it’s elitist or not, I mean, you know, there’s not many people who do it, so you have to be driven to find a custom shoemaker. And I don’t feel like I’m elitist. I really strive to make shoes and I do make shoes for all kinds of people—from folks who have orthopedic situations or their feet that don’t fit off-the-rack shoes, to people who are doing heavy labor and they need something that’s going to hold up, to people who are wearing like walking on carpets all day and not very hard on their shoes at all, and everything in between. And so, because of that…
[Raphael] I mean, you know, if you make minimum wage, you probably have to save up money. You know you cannot… It has to be a very conscious effort where you’re like, “I want this for my feet. I want this for the process.”
[Amara] Well, you know, I heard somebody talking about the history of cowboy boots and, historically, a cowboy would and could expect to pay about a month’s wages for a pair of shoes, for a pair of boots; and that was considered normal because it’s a tool. And so, I think that, you know, that’s kind of accurate still, yeah?
[Raphael] You mentioned not many of these bespoke shoemakers are still in business in the US. Maybe there never have been. How did you get into this?
How did you start making shoes?
I always say that this job chose me.
AMARA HARK WEBER
[Amara] Well, the short answer, I always say that this job chose me. But, I started when I was getting my MFA at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago and I was in a program for graphic design actually. I was a photographer and a writer previously, and I was in a very bad car accident and I had a head injury, and I was having a lot of physical and cognitive issues that did not allow me to continue with photography or writing. And I took a shoemaking class, and I was able to do it. And it’s partially because I come from a family of bookmakers, so I’ve always worked with my mom as a paper maker. She’s like she’s pretty astounding in her own right. But, I’ve always worked with book arts, and like I know how to bind books, and it’s kind of similar to making shoes in that you’re seamlessly covering an object. And so, the one kind of memory that I didn’t lose in my accident was my muscle memory, and so my body could do these actions even if it took my brain a while to, like, you know, assimilate everything. And so that’s how I started.
[Raphael] So, now, bespoke shoes and factory shoes are just so different. The amount of time it takes, the way they’re made. One thing I found interesting is leathers. You know, I’ve noticed recently things like, you know, cordovan has gotten really expensive and people often like them on ready-to-wear shoes. But, what are leathers that you like, you know, for bespoke shoes and what’s the difference there? And were you maybe like, “Well, this may be great for ready-to-wear shoes, but for bespoke shoes actually not the best option.”
What leather works well for bespoke shoes?
[Amara] Well, a great example is cordovan. I think that one of the beautiful parts about handmade footwear is the leathers that we use. They’re really super beautiful and they have a lot of characteristics. They don’t have a finish over them. The leathers that I choose use just transparent dyes, and so the characteristics of the actual leather are apparent.
Why is Shell Cordovan Leather So Expensive?
[Raphael] Top grain, unsanded, non coated. Because with so much labor cost, it’d be foolish to use anything but the most premium materials.
[Amara] Yeah, and also, too, like you get more beautiful objects. But, it’s a more pleasurable experience for myself. Very selfishly, using wonderful materials is pleasurable. But, I’m not a factory, and so I’m making small objects and I have the luxury of cutting them out like a larger piece of leather; whereas a factory doesn’t have that luxury and so they might be more apt to use a corrected grain. I don’t use any corrected grain. So, you know, the leathers that we use are a little bit different than factory leathers. Every project is a little different so, you know, when I use a lot of different kinds of leather, it always starts with: How are you going to wear your shoes and where are you going to wear your shoes? Because, if you’re…
[Raphael] Purposeful.
[Amara] Yeah, wearing them in St. Paul, Minnesota and you do a lot of walking outside all year round, this going be very different wear on the footwear than if you’re living in…
[Raphael] Palm Beach, Florida?
[Amara] Palm Beach, Florida or Amarillo, Texas; and you are wearing them sometimes or you are there for an occasion, if it’s for a wedding, for whatever. I mean, like, so that it starts with function; and then we kind of, you know, plan backwards. So, I use a lot of different kinds of leather. The cordovan that we use is also not corrected and doesn’t have any top coat on it, so that’s one of the things that I always tell clients: That the cordovan that we use requires a lot of maintenance in order to keep the sheen that’s so beautiful. And cordovan as a material, it’s really tough and really hearty and it’s kind of challenging to work with. I don’t mind it. You know, like, the struggle is kind of fun sometimes.
[Raphael] You like hard things. Difficult things.
[Amara] Glutton for punishment. But, you know, the first time I made a pair of cordovan shoes, of course, I tested it on myself and I was like, “Wow! These are so beautiful,” and then I noticed that as I was wearing them, the sheen was different on each one. Cordovan has kind of like a nap, kind of like corduroy, and I didn’t realize that the first time I used it because, figuring it out on my own. And I had, you know, cut it for economy and the vamps were going different directions and they reflected light differently; and I was like, “Oh,” you know, amateur mistake. But, that is a factor. You know, like on a factory shoe, the cordovan is going to be more corrected. It’s going to have a glaze over the top. The next thing I noticed was that I walked through, like I walked out to my car, and there was dew on the grass, and like little specks of water made little specks on my shoes. And I was like, “Oh, my gosh!” And I didn’t like upkeeping my shoes. Because it’s just not what I choose to spend my time.
[Raphael] You do enough work already.
[Amara] Yeah, I would rather spend my time maintaining, polishing my new pair of client shoes than like maintaining my own. So, the cordovan actually got really beautiful and really cool because it got really matte. It was very different than what one would expect from like a factory cordovan. But, what did not change was that like the nap was always different so they always appeared to be a slightly different color. So, you know…
[Raphael] I think cordovan also, as you walk, like in the break, you really can see it and it’s almost a bit like it kind of stretches a little more, I find, than others.
[Amara] Yeah, it has a very different… Like every animal, every leather is going to have a very different way that it breaks, and cordovan is very particular in how it does it. It’s much more like weighty.
[Raphael] Would you say that, you know, because cordovan is a bit more unique in that way, it’s almost better suited to ready-to-wear shoes. It conforms more to your foot versus, if you have a bespoke last, you know, this is already made to fit you perfectly. Now, you put the cordovan on, now it gets a little more stretchy and it’s a little bigger.
[Amara] Yeah, you know, well, my cordovan shoes actually shrunk, but I left them outside in a rainstorm. And so, mine totally shrunk and they did not want to grow back. So, that, I can say, like, if you leave your shoes outside in a rainstorm, that’s, again, don’t to that. I didn’t know it was gonna rain. I just totally forgot them outside. But, I think that, you know, I don’t know the particulars of how cordovan is treated like for a factory condition. But, I do know that they are different shells, usually than what I would have access to.
Shell Cordovan Leather, Explained
[Raphael] Do you like using Horween, which is like kind of the gold standard?
[Amara] Yeah, it’s beautiful.
[Raphael] But there’s so many. There’s Japanese...
[Amara] Yeah, there’s so many different tanneries. Argentina, also. There’s different places that make it. Every tanner is going to be a little bit different. But, you know, if someone says, “I want a cordovan shoe,” I always say, “Why do you want a cordovan shoe?” and sometimes that answer is: I want something that is expensive; and, if that is the reason, then I would tend to try to steer someone towards something else. If they want like, take alligator, I mean, that is going to… If you’re looking for something that looks expensive, people know that alligator is expensive. It wears hard, like, I mean, it’s like hard-wearing. If you want cordovan because you like the ripple of the wrinkle, you want to do the maintenance, or you know, any of those things, great.
[Raphael] You want your customer to be aware of what they are getting into.
[Amara] I don’t want somebody to like, you know, walk through a, you know, through the rain and all of a sudden their shoes get specks on them; and they get really upset because it’s very expensive; and then, you know, that would be horrible. You know, that’s kind of heartbreaking.
[Raphael] So, you mentioned alligator and, yes, people know it’s expensive, but I think there’s also the connotation that it’s like a delicate leather. What’s your experience?
What’s your experience with alligator leather?
[Amara] I also know that it has that feel and I have the total opposite experience. For me, my alligator shoes are super tough, and I think that, you know, the past five years or so I’ve started using a lot more exotic leather—which would be, for example, ostrich, alligator, caiman. Anyways, that’s a whole other thing. Stingray. What else do I use? Commonly, shark and all those others. They all have very very different characteristics in terms of how they look, but they wear so hard. They just have a life to them, and they’re beautiful.
[Raphael] Like leather sometimes?
[Amara] Yeah, fish leather is like very thin, but it’s like very strong.
[Raphael] Lizard? What’s your experience with lizard?
[Amara] Lizard, I’ve used it just a couple of times and it stretched a little more than I was anticipating, when I was blasting. But, it was really cool. It was beautiful and so, again, like there’s going to be a difference between something that’s old and dried up and something new and very nice. Someone gave me some lizard that was not super easy to use because it was kind of old. But, I find like the exotic leathers are really… They’re distinct looking in terms of pattern, but they just wear hard and alligator is tough.
[Raphael] Would you say, like, elephant tough?
[Amara] That’s the toughest thing. But it’s like distinct and it’s beautiful. Everything is tagged, you know, it’s not like… There’s nothing under the table, you know.
[Raphael] They all like CITES certified where it’s a clear chain. Some people say like alligator leather is, you know, the most kind of tracked leather. So, you can truly see where did this exactly originate, you know? It wasn’t just poached.
[Amara] No, for sure not. If people want the tags like anything that is restricted, it comes with a tag and then I can give the tags to that person. Absolutely. So, yeah, I have no interest in, you know, under the table, like back alley leather dealing. Because I want to stand like I want to be able to stand up for what I’m using and, if I don’t know where it comes from, I can’t do that.
[Raphael] And then there’s the classic calf leather, you know? Box calf or baby calf. Do you ever work with regular cow or bullhide?
The TRUTH About Leather Goods
What’s your experience with cowhide?
[Amara] Yeah, I’m actually making a pair of shoes or a pair of boots right now that are shark and American bison. And it’s like a shrunken bison. They’re just…
[Raphael] It’s a very kind of three-dimensional texture.
[Amara] Super cool, yeah. It’s really beautiful. It’s super beautiful. Yeah, I use those, too.
[Raphael] And, I think, I would say, recently in the whole leather goods industry, the whole veg tan has become more popular. Some companies you know built a whole brand around it and argue that veg tan is best and is high quality. What do you think about veg tan versus chrome tan for shoes?
Is veg-tanned or chrome-tanned better for shoes?
[Amara] Well, I think that there are really good vegetable tan leathers, and there are really good chromium tan leathers. And I wouldn’t be hazard to say I prefer one over the other because there’s great ones and there ones that are less maybe fun to work with in anything. And so, for example, these are vegetable tan leathers, and it was lovely to work with. I’ve worked with vegetable tan leather that, when it’s wet, it kind of speckled a little bit, made me a little nervous. It dried fine. I use both and I don’t necessarily use them interchangeably, but I do use both of them.
[Raphael] Yeah, and you’re not afraid to be bold, right? Like this is a green, like olive green, with this like pink thread. You even dye the thread on your own to match the pink here. I was always like… If you polish those, you know, are you concerned about it?
[Amara] Yeah, well, my strategy for polishing those would be no different than any other shoe, whereby I would probably look for a green cream polish. Just kind of moisturize. I don’t usually bring my shoes up to a super high mirror shine, but you could certainly do that. Again, I don’t do tons of maintenance on my shoes. The leather is really nice. It should be good for a while. You can wear it really hard; and, obviously, if you want to spend time waxing and polishing, you can bring up the luster or you can just let it go and do its thing.
[Raphael] And I mean, one thing you mentioned with the leather, in a factory, things are either stamped out or laser cut, right? And the idea is to have a consumption that uses the entire skin or height. You’re more like, “Oh, I’ll pick the best one and make sure the nap goes the right way,” and like for alligator, I mean, it’s a lot more tricky to cut that because it actually has naturally different patterns, right? So, how do you go about that typically?
How do you create patterns with different leathers?
[Amara] About like laying out a pattern? Well, it depends on the animal. So, because every design is singular, I work with a client to figure out how, if it is an animal that has different patterns—ostrich is another example—there are some like focal areas that are very polka dot, some areas that are very like wrinkly, and some areas that are kind of in between. And you can use all those designs strategically and so that’s super fun, you know, to be able to use the natural characteristics of the leather strategically in your design process.
[Raphael] Like ostrich, right? Like the leg ostrich.
[Amara] Yeah, the leg is totally different.
[Raphael] Looks very different than the regular kind of dotted… Most people think of the dotted part as ostrich. They don’t think about the leg part.
[Amara] Yeah, or like the flanks and the neck and stuff. They have a different pattern. Ostrich, too, is very soft, super tough, you know? It’s another great example of something that is very distinct looking and very, very tough.
[Raphael] So, what about lining leathers? What’s your choice there?
What do you use for lining leathers?
[Amara] Well, that is something that I actually do use vegetable tan leathers. And I know that is not… Everyone has their own choices. I choose to use vegetable tan leathers.
[Raphael] Just because you don’t want the chrome salt residue to some get into the skin?
[Amara] Yeah, I mean, like that is a big part of it, but the trick is that I use a lot of colorful lining leathers, and I know from experience that some colorful leather will like bleed through onto your skin if you don’t wear socks, for example.
[Raphael] Especially if you have sweaty feet or if it’s really hot outside and your feet sweat. The friction, heat, moisture.
[Amara] Moisture, yeah. So, I’m super careful about when I use a lining leather that’s colorful. My lining leathers, the colorful ones are from Germany. And it’s like super top, eco-grade, orthopedic everything. It’s lovely to use. It’s lovely against the foot. In the summer, I personally don’t like wearing socks, so like this is what I choose to wear and that’s what I like. You know, you can have a red lining leather and your feet don’t come out pink at the end of to day… or they shouldn’t
[Raphael] I wear my boat shoes barefoot, but I have relatively like dry feet. I don’t know if someone has like more generally moist feet. I don’t know how that…
[Amara] Sweaty. I mean, one of my cow boot teachers, he always was like, you have to like coat the thread and wax. And he know said the inside of your shoes is like jungle conditions. It’s like moist, it’s warm, it’s dark. It’s like the perfect thing for bacteria breeding, which is kind of disgusting. But, like people just…
Your foot is kind of like your armpit. It sweats a lot.
Kind of gross. But, like, you know I don’t… Like, the shoes are all leather so I don’t personally like wearing socks that much. They squish my toes. And with my shoes, they really don’t stink because there’s no plastic in them. I mean, if you think about wrapping any area of your body in plastic, it’s going to sweat more, first of all, and it gets stinky after a while. And so, like that’s another with factory shoes is that there’s going to be plastic and paper somewhere in there, and so your body just responds to it as a body would respond; and it gets a little bit more moist and maybe a little more stinky.
[Raphael] I mean, the only area really where you use non-leather, maybe is the sole, right?
[Amara] So, these ones have rubber soles, yeah.
[Raphael] You have a bunch of… I mean, there’s obviously like Vibram soles and all kinds of stuff.
[Amara] All kinds of stuff.
[Raphael] For a bespoke shoe, I mean, there’s more alternatives. Walk us through. You have a bunch of cool stuff here.
[Amara] Bunch of piles of stuff. Again, when we started a design process for any project, one of the questions is how are you going to wear these shoes and where are you going to wear them? And so, if somebody’s working on concrete is different, as I mentioned, than somebody who’s walking on carpet all day or hiking in the woods; versus in living in New York City or someone who lives part of the time in New York City and part of the time in upstate, and they want something to go between. So, you know, soling can have a huge impact on your day.
[Raphael] But, you know, it’s also like, yeah, if you’re like you want a travel shoe where it’s like it’s good for rain. That can be a cool thing. I recently had like… I found like three pairs of shoes on eBay, and they were all like Gaziano & Girling. They were in good shape, they were in my size, and there were three of them, right? And two had leather soles, and those, I naturally gravitate more towards those. And so I ended up getting the third one, too. But, I wasn’t too sold on it. But, it had a rubber sole, and the rubber sole was basically all throughout. Actually, having worn it, I’m like, this is actually good. You know, if you asked me before, I would said, “Nah, I don’t know. Maybe, you know, classic leather sole. Maybe like even a toe tab,” but the rubber so can be really nice as a, you know, even a loafer or a travel shoe. The sound is different. The grip is different.
[Amara] The sound is different, yeah. Grip is different. The other thing that is really interesting and I didn’t realize this until I resoled a pair of my shoes that were leather sole first, and then I resold them as rubber, is that a rubber so has more memory of the last. So, over time a leather sole will tend to curl up a little more. You mentioned walking in the rain. A leather sole, as you as your foot bends and flexes at the joint, a leather sole, like leather remembers your movement, which is why leather shoes are so comfortable. They remember your body and how it moves. A leather sole is going to slowly move up, whereas a rubber so is going to keep that original shape a little bit. And so, if you are a person who doesn’t like those creases, one way to kind of alleviate that is to go for a rubber sole. Yeah, which I totally didn’t realize until I did that. And I personally like don’t love those creases.
[Raphael] Yeah. Who does?
[Amara] I mean. But, the fact is like that, they happen, you know? If you see a shoe that doesn’t have those, it’s not been worn.
[Raphael] It’s a natural material, exactly.
[Amara] Yeah, so those happen, but a rubber sole is just gonna keep that down because it’s not gonna have that memory.
Designing Bespoke Shoes with Your Shoemaker
[Raphael] I mean, you can actually iron them out.
[Amara] Yeah, I mean, like there are ways to deal with it. But, it’s like a thing that you have to do, yeah.
[Raphael] Okay, but, like, vibram, I think there’s, you know, the English ones… What are they called? Yes, exactly.
[Amara] [unintelligible] I have some of those back there, yep.
[Raphael] I think they’re heavier oftentimes, right?
[Amara] Yeah, they wear a little differently. And so, like one of the things… There’s some vibram in here. This is like the classic 100s, I think. They come in a couple colors. But it’s like, you know, it’s like kind of a classic grippy thing. You can have a separate heel cap so that you can have different heel heights, which can be convenient. But you can feel like there’s… This is pretty flat. It’s not super spongy. It wears hard. Like my partner wears a pair of boots that have these same soles; and he wears them hard, he wears them almost every day, and like, boy, are they ever wearing well. But, it’s, you know, like this is… it’s just kind of a classic rubber thing. Something that’s a little bit a similar in look but a difference in feel are these ones from Lactae Hevea in France, which are a lot more spongy and soft underfoot.
[Raphael] You can just see like that, how floppy, you know? Like, I mean, look at that how… Just the floppiness.
[Amara] And if you squish it… Yeah, I mean, it’s really super comfortable to wear.
[Raphael] It contracts, like you can see. Who’s standing on this…
[Amara] Yeah, so it would be great for a concrete floor. Also, it’s kind of similar to human cartilage and so, if you have knee or hip problems, these can be super super comfortable to wear. So, for example, these are going to be for those boots that I mentioned that are very rugged. But, the person who is ordering them is working on concrete and has sensitivity on the bottoms of his soles. So, this has like the same kind of like rugged look. It’s going to wear really well, it’s going to have traction, but it’s just softer and it’s going to feel really different.
[Raphael] Nice. Okay, so let’s say, you know, this is great for a boot and for commando soles, but let’s say I’m getting like this loafer made, what would you suggest if we were to go with…
[Amara] Like a rubber situation? Well, as you can see, I just made a pair of loafers with rubber soles. I like them. Again, this is a Lactae Hevea. They call them unit soles when the heel is connected. Same company, but a different pattern. So, there’s a couple different options. If you wanted to have a leather sole, you can put like a rubber half sole on it. It’s a little bit thicker. It’s not going to have the same sponginess. Or you could go for… There are leather soles that have rubber impregnated in here. So, there’s like a rubber section in the middle.
[Raphael] It’s funny because, typically, these are the soles that you see on the entry-level Goodyear or like Blake… It’s kind of funny. I’ve seen them. When I see that then I’m always thinking of like lower-end shoes, but it’s, you know… But, you can do it with bespoke. There’s nothing that…
Creating Insoles, the “Backbone” of Handmade Bespoke Shoes
[Amara] Well, you know, from the side, you can’t tell. So, like, for example, I have a pair of those that I wear for biking because it has the same look as like, you know, typical formal wear, like leather bottoms shoes. But then, I do have like the traction for riding my bike. So, you know, I feel like, for myself, there’s a time and a place for almost everything, and it’s just getting the right material for the right project. So, you know, something like this, this would make a great travel shoe. It’s going to flex really easily. It’s going to be spongy. It’s going to have traction if you’re walking in the rain, no problem.
[Raphael] This is 100% natural latex, right? Coming from like the milk on the tree in the Brazilian rainforest?
[Amara] Yeah, it’s a really cool… It’s a great company, and they have different colors. So, if you wanted, for example, green or red or whatever.
[Raphael] This looks more like crepe sole, right?
[Amara] Yeah, this is like your classic, what they call plantation crepe. This is laminated. You can see there’s four different layers here, and so, this is, again, really traction-y. It’s a similar material to the Lactae Hevea. But, it’s not poured into a mold obviously but it’s a different company yeah this is from a place in LA. But, these ones, I mean, if you think about like Clark’s in the 70s, that’s what they had. That’s what they kind of made. Plantation crepe. People always think, “What’s that?” and I say, “Clark’s in the 70s.” And they say, “Oh!”
[Raphael] Now, this is different. This is a lot softer, again.
[Amara] Yep, so that’s, again… Like these are the like Lactae Hevea sheets, and so you know, these again can be mixed and matched. This could be used as a, you know… It could be used in different ways or it could be used as a midsole. You know, if you do need a layer, that’s what I was kind of envisioning for these. Having these as a layer between different… As like a layer of sponginess essentially between different outsoles.
[Raphael] Oh, yeah! That’s interesting because, you know, most of the time, many of you look at the shoe factory video, right? They always show how they’re smearing like the cork paste in between. You use actual pieces of cork sheet, right? That you cut out?
[Amara] And put on a couple different things, yeah. Cork, wool, leather, at times. Yeah, again it’s like…
[Raphael] And you could also see putting this in?
[Amara] Well, this one, no, I wouldn’t put it in as like a fill, but like rather as like a midsole. So, like you can see right under here there’s like a white layer, so you can kind of build up layers in the soling.
[Raphael] Just get a midsole to get a little bit of… I had that once in a heel where there was a bit of foam. So, it was leather, foam, leather; and you could really feel it, how it would soften the impact as you walked.
[Amara] Yeah, and so that’s what I was kind of envisioning for these sheets. For, again, like somebody who has joint issues or working on concrete, etc.
[Raphael] Standing all day, getting… And it’s a natural material, but you get this kind of comfort. So, this is also not going to wear out.
[Amara] Yeah, it’s really… It’s super cool. Yeah, people think, “Oh, if it’s soft, it’s going to wear faster,” but that’s not the case. So, these are just different thicknesses of whatever, of plantation crepe.
[Raphael] And what do we got here?
[Amara] And these are Dr. Sole soles, and these come in several different models, but they are kind of popular right now. It’s what I have on my boots.
[Raphael] Hong Kong Shoe Parts Company. Original Dr. Sole Cork. Oil resistant.
[Amara] Yeah, so they have a lot of different kind of models. They’re popular right now amongst kind of heritage boot wearers. They’re a little on the heavy side. They’re tough though, and so, you know, if you have a more rugged boot, this is a great one.
[Raphael] But, what is it? Doesn’t look like just cork. It looks like maybe…
[Amara] No, it’s cork and rub. It’s like a mix. Yeah, so a lot of times like one of the things that can be challenging about rubber or about using not leather as soling is the adhering it together because the fear, for me, is people’s shoes coming unlaminated. That’s a nightmare. And so all of these different materials take different processes to make them stick and so, you know, that is challenging. And the more you fold into your repertoire, the more testing you have to do to make sure it’s like going to not… That won’t happen. So, you know, my process for using the sole would be very, very different than for using the Lactae Hevea soles, even though they’re both like a rubber material. But, when you’re ordering these, like… I should say, you know, what the materials are and then you can figure out how to glue things or how to laminate them.
Building Heels & Shaping Soles for Handmade Bespoke Shoes
[Raphael] And when you use leather soles, you go for the kind of, you know, the oak bark tan kind of…
[Amara] Yeah, yeah. And again, it depends, like, I’ve gone through phases of using different things. Factories change over time. My practice changed over time. What I’m aware of changes over time. My abilities. Yeah, so I’ve used a lot of different things, and there are you know pluses and minuses. But, yeah, a lot of it is, yeah, oak bark.
[Raphael] Well, and sometimes, it’s also like, you know, the factory can get out of business, but it’s like I looked at, like, kangaroo leather, for example, cause, as a lining, it’s extremely thin but really strong. But, then, you know, I did some research and I learned that, you know, in California, it’s actually illegal, right? And so I’m like,
“Well, probably California is always like a leader in the US for lots of stuff.”
So, maybe, you know, down the line, this is going to be legal all over the place. Maybe not good to invest in that now when there’s that part of it, right? So, you know, one thing that is often mentioned and it comes up with suits like Italian suits and English suits, you know, American suit. It’s similar in the shoe world, right? You have like the Austrian, Hungarian school of thought. The British. And then maybe like, you know, the Italian, French, German. Yeah, what do you think of these classifications?
What do you think of different shoemaking styles?
[Amara] Well, I will tell you this is my personal opinion is that, in the United States, we don’t have any of those classifications. So, we can kind of pick and choose what we want. But, I would say that, if you’re trying to figure out what those mean, I would think about climate, and the footwear has to follow the climate. And so…
[Raphael] Statistically, it’s a bit like, you know, if you look at old houses in the US, right? I live houses built in 1901. You look, it has like all these different… It has a bit of Victorian here; a bit of, you know, Neo-Greek Revival; a little bit, you know, neoclassicism; a bit of art nouveau. Like, it’s just all mixed. Sometimes there is some art deco in there. Is it…
[Amara] Yeah, makers can kind of do that. You know, for better and for worse, we don’t have those kinds of long-standing traditions and we have a very varied climate.
[Raphael] Like the Norvegese, right? That’s what they call it in Italy? Norwegian welts? What would you call it?
[Amara] Well, this is just a stitch. I mean, this is just like a braided stitch. So, this is nothing fancy. But, I would say that, like, thinking about footwear, English, like my teachers were English or English style or English trained, and England has always been kind of the center for menswear; and so if you think of like classic suits, also classic footwear, it generally maybe would be an English. That would be kind of an English thing, but England is kind of stormy and rainy and so their shoes have to be robust and well-built, and they have to last through bad weather, like wet weather. So, they’re generally pretty well-built. Same thing with German shoes. Like, it’s cold and kind of, like… You know, there’s four seasons, and so it’s like well-built. But, like, they’re German-engineered and Germany has an orthopedic trade.
[Raphael] Yes, huge orthopedic trade.
[Amara] Yeah. which also impacts the style of footwear being made there. It’s very…
[Raphael] Sometimes, they’re not very… Like I look at them and they’re not very attractive, right, to my eye. But, in Germany, people love them in a way.
[Amara] So, well, if you think about the design, maybe the design is following the function; whereas, an Italian shoe or French shoe is a little bit more southern, is warmer, and often more elegant.
[Raphael] Like the Austro-Hungarian wood peg sole, triple sole, larger brogues. Like the holes, everything.
[Amara] Yeah, but like, really, like ergonomics. And so, one of the things that… I’ve used lasts from all of those places, and it’s really interesting because I’ve learned a lot about fit and style. I think, like, the hard way. But, by looking at the lasts, German lasts are really comfortable and part of that is, underfoot, they’re really curvy. And so , Italian like…
[Raphael] They also have like the toe spring, right?
[Amara] Yeah, more toe spring.
[Raphael] More toes spring so, when you walk, you naturally have that spring built-in, which is a lot of French or some English are elegant. They’re super flat, and that’s why people all start using the toe tap. So, it doesn’t wear so quickly
[Amara] But, the other part of having a flat, having more or less toe spring is having a thicker sole. So, a lot of those soles are a lot thicker, so they’re not going. If it was flat, you’d just clump; whereas if it’s thicker and you know there’s less movement, then you’ll roll; whereas, if you have a very thin sole, you’re able to move, like you still can bend at the joint, if that makes sense. And so, that allows different styles to happen, you know? It’s interesting to like think about how design and functionality are, you know? Work together or don’t. Because you can get some pretty clumpy shoes pretty quickly if you’re using the, you know, too thick of sole with the wrong toe spring or whatever.
Welting & Sewing the Soles of Handmade Bespoke Shoes
Do you have a house style?
[Raphael] So, do you have a house style? If someone just comes to you and says, “Hey, make me…”
[Amara] “What’s your style?” Yeah, I don’t know. I feel like I’m kind of like a jack of all trades. I mean, I don’t want to make a shoe that I don’t find attractive, and I want to be interested in what I’m making.
[Raphael] You have a wide spectrum. Like, you do women’s shoes, you do men’s.
[Amara] I do different things.
[Raphael] And you are artistic. So it’s not just classic Oxford, Derby, brown, black. You do a lot of…
[Amara] No, I do a lot of different things. Yeah, and that’s like a blessing and a curse. You know, jack of all trades and master of none. I think that, in some ways, if I could just like pick a lane and stay in it, I would be able to move forward more quickly. But, I enjoy doing a lot of different things. Everything is always… Like you’re always on your toes. And I think that, hopefully, like long term, I have a like a wider understanding of footwear, generally. And we’ll be able to help my clients, who are like, “Oh! I want a black Oxford,” or “Oh! I want to boot that I have to wear on concrete;” you know, “I have foot problems,” for example.
The goal is that I have a deep understanding, so I’m able to work with people in a productive way and not, you know, just have one thing that I do and that’s what I do.
What’s something you wish your customers knew better?
[Raphael] What do you wish your customers would, you know, understand more of or better that would make your life easier?
[Amara] That would make my life easier?
[Raphael] Or just, you know, lead to a better product overall?
[Amara] Yeah, that’s a good question. I don’t totally know. Like, I wish that people understood kind of the physicality of this job. And a lot of people, I think, compare my work or handmade shoes to factory shoes and are like, “Oh, wow! this like a factory shoe!” And I always feel like factories try to do what we do. Like, our shoes should be leading the way and factories try to catch up. We’re able to be nimble and to pivot really quickly and, um, that is super freeing. And so that’s one thing that I wish that people, you know, that would understand is how, um, skillful handmade, like how many skills are involved, and, um, and that it’s not going to like, it’s, it’s different materials, different processes. It’s just a different thing than a factory shoe, and I think that because the end product can be very beautiful, people think like, “Oh, it’s like factory-made.” But it’s better, and it’s different, and it’s just, it’s like a different object entirely, you know.
Where do you draw inspiration from?
[Raphael] Where do you draw inspiration from?
[Amara] Oh, everywhere!
[Raphael] What are some like, are there Instagrammers you follow…
[Amara] Yeah, sure. I mean, like so, in terms of technically making, like fact is I’m from Minnesota, and I never even saw a handmade shoe till I made one myself, much less wore one. So, I’ve since like travel and visit and try to be as open as I can and like put as much into the world so I can, hopefully, get us much back, you know. Um, on Instagram, I’ve learned a lot of like technical things, like I really appreciate seeing how people make things, even if they’re just showing the most perfect day.
[Raphael laughs]
[Amara] You know, like, that’s the fact people show their beautiful stuff…
[Raphael] That’s Instagram in general, right?
[Amar] That’s, yeah, like that, you know, it’s anything you show…
An Interview with Simon Wegmann of Wayman Bespoke (Shoes)
[Raphael] It’s like you look at, and you’re like “Oh man, everyone is here on a vacation and starting the Lamborghini.”
[Amara] Everyone has like their perfectly spaced nails.
[Raphael] And then you look at my life, and you know, what am I doing wrong?
[Amara] My nails are all slightly…
[Raphael] It can evoke these feelings. They’re not healthy, really.
[Amara] No, I mean, well, I totally know, like, we have good days and bad days. Like we’re craftsmen, and so like, I try to be realistic about that in what I portray but I know that not everybody is like that. The other thing is like some people just don’t have an eye, and so they might be really proud of what they’re doing and not see that everything is really crooked. For example, you know, whatever, we’re all different places, but I learn a lot of like technical things from Instagram, but I think, like in terms of like color and design and like ideas and wear, I mean it all has to do with movement.
And so, I’m an active person and I move my body, like I swim, I’m outside, I have little kids that are learning to walk ,so watching them learn to walk and how they move their body is fascinating. Last spring, I did like a residency at the University Arboretum, where once a month, I would go and spend a day just in the plants looking at how the folds and joints kind of come together, like what lines and curves look like on different forms. Because, again, it’s like three-dimensional and it’s all curved, just like shoes, you know. They kind of come together in interesting ways and have like incredible color combinations, just like nothing gets more wild than plants. Like they’re just so wild and cool.
inspiration comes from
Everywhere
Am and I read a lot and listen to a lot of books, and so like I think like I get ideas, and I think about, I think about the hows of what I do, and like where I am as like a human in the universe at this moment of space-time, you know, from like being intellectually stimulated in some way, so you know, you have to be open. Yeah, I try to be very open, but of course, you can’t catch everything, but yeah inspiration comes from everywhere. Yeah, the beautiful world we live in.
[Raphael] You know, when it comes to factory versus bespoke, right, in factories, I typically see plastic lasts in bespoke workmanship, I often see wooden lasts. Now, I met with Saskia Wittmer through an event by The Sartorial Club, and she mentioned, you know, she’s like, “Well, I like plastic lasts because with changing humidity, they don’t change the shape.”
[Amara] Such a good, that’s such a good point, yeah.
[Raphael] So, in your studio, I’ve seen both. I’ve seen plastic last, I’ve seen wood lasts. So, how do you decide what you work with and…
[Amara] Yeah, um well, again it’s like, it’s ‘the preference is in the maker’ and also how the maker procures their lasts. When I first started I was buying vintage lasts, and then working with the factory to have them graded and multiplied, and those factories only made plastic lasts. And I was like, “Fine, great, whatever,” but as I worked more and I had more variants and sizes, so you know, like size 48 plus down to like size 35, 34, like that’s a huge range. And like a really huge plastic last is really heavy, and so I, um, I realize that like for larger sizes I maybe prefer wood. Also, I do a lot of alterations on my lasts, and I just prefer to sand on wood than sand on leather. It’s like a more pleasurable experience, so, um yeah, I use, I use both but usually, when I’m ordering lasts I go for wood just because it’s a little bit more lightweight, and um, and it’s more pleasant to work on, and I do a fair amount of work on all of the lasts.
[Raphael] And you know sometimes, you see very few people that do like the old-school way where you start with a block of wood, and then kind of work it out by, you know, by hand and stuff.
[Amara] Yeah.
[Raphael] I mean, that just means it takes a lot longer…
[Amara] It takes longer.
[Raphael] You don’t necessarily get a better result?
[Amara] Yeah, I mean there’s a, I can understand the beauty of that, and I also know that for myself, I end up kind of, I started out, I’ve done all these different kinds of things, and so when I started really working hard on like altering lasts in earnest, just cut cutting them up, redoing everything, like all the different stuff, trying to figure out what I liked to work with, what shapes I was drawn to, what shapes I could make, what shapes how shapes functioned, um, I quickly realized that a lot of the shapes that I was coming up with were pretty similar, and a lot of the shapes that I was buying larger last from and carving them down to were pretty similar, and so I for me I realized like there’s not necessarily a net benefit in like starting from scratch every time. It’s more economical and also more dependable for me to have a kind of um like a blank is how you call it, it’s like a template, essentially, that I’ve worked with factories to come up with. So, it still is like my design overall, but I’m working with last makers to make these lasts that I understand how the curves are, and then looking at someone’s foot and their heel-to-ball, ball-to-toe proportion, at their arch, at whatever I can alter the last in a more like more intelligent way.
Shaping Bespoke Shoe Lasts by Hand & Machine
[Raphael] Yes, it fits them better.
[Amara] It fits them a little better, and also too, be more confident about if one foot is larger than the other or not, that I’m making them that like it’s going to be right, whereas if I were making them both from scratch every time, I just don’t think I would trust myself to make, to make everything exactly the same. I think it would be super super hard for me to do that.
Which shoemakers do you look up to?
[Raphael] No, it makes perfect sense. So who are some people in the industry or maybe, you know, that’s it changes, but people you look up to, where you’re like, “Man, I like the way they do this, or I like the way they do that.” Or, “I’d love to go and learn from them based on, you know, the output that you see.
[Amara] Yeah, well, you know that, um, that depends on a lot of different things, like there are so many people who are so much more experienced than I am that I look up to in certain ways. In the United States, Marcel, of course, one of my teachers has been really generous with information with me, and he also has little kids, which like, for me, has been…
[Raphael] Relatable?
[Amara] Relatable, and also like, I don’t know, he’s just, he’s been really really generous with me, and I’ve learned so much from him and spending time with him. Lee Miller down in Texas. He is super generous with information also, and I think like a lot of people think about Lee, and they think, like, “Man that’s the life I’d like to live,” because he’s got a, he’s so skilled, he’s so generous, he has, um, a good business, he has like a strong, like he’s just has a really strong he’s a craftsman, business is working, like, and he, like, runs and plays guitar, and is so nice. And like all of those things are all enviable, you know, like that’s just lovely. And so those are two people that are close that I think of right away that I just admire a lot. Um…
[Raphael] Maybe someone that you’ve never worked with? Like who are some people who you’re like, “No, I never met them, but I think their work is cool.”
[Amara] Yeah, Nor Yuki from Japan. He was just here in the United States, like I really admire him. Um, his craftsmanship is just impeccable, his ideas are cheeky, and he’s making artwork and making really amazing shoes, and he’s also, like, sharing information and teaching. And so, like, those are all three things that I strive for is like being generous and making shoes that are smart and a little bit funny, hopefully, and, you know, sharing information because that’s how everybody improves, you know like that’s, that’s the goal. So people who kind of imbibe that attitude I enjoy. I know that, like, the culture in the UK is really generous with information, and so that’s really awesome to know, like, there are folks that I can contact there and that I have contacted that I’ve never even met. I just contact them, and they share all of this information, which is just like so generous and so meaningful because I’m so far from anybody here, you know. Like, I’m pretty isolated, and so to know that there’s a community far away, that is, you know…
[Raphael] Supportive.
[Amara] Supportive and helpful. It’s just unbelievable. It’s the blessing of the computer age, you know. [Laughs]
[Raphael] Awesome! Well, thank you very much for your time. I appreciated it!
[Amara] Yeah.
[Raphael] Yeah, and I look forward to working with you with more shoes in the future.
[Amara] Well, let’s hope that, let’s hope they turn out. [Both laugh] Thank you. It’s always a pleasure to see you.
Do you own bespoke shoes? What do you like most about the process and the end result of bespoke shoes? Let us know in the comments!